If all the cops left Ferguson, Mo., there would be no one left for the residents to yell at. There would be no one left for them to taunt and no targets for their anger, shouting, thrown rocks, and molotov cocktails. There would be no one threatening them or making them feel threatened, no one pointing guns at them, no one treating them like criminals, no one pushing and ordering them around, no one launching smoke grenades or tear gas at them in their own yards. Get military-clad, military-armed “soldiers” out of their town. It’s Ferguson, Mo., USA, not Iraq.
And if all the reporters left too (fat chance), there would be no audience, no one watching, no one to show off for, no one to demonstrate for. No reason for out-of-town troublemakers to show up, no photo ops for out-of-town politicians and “community leaders.”
Put all the cops on the edge of town, checking IDs and keeping non-residents out, since reportedly it’s non-residents doing a lot of the looting, burning, and agitating.
Get all the cops out of Ferguson. Stop exacerbating the problem. They’ll call 9-1-1 if they need you.
Yeah, yeah, I know. It was just a thought.
the term “outside agitators” has been used since the civil war down south as another way to say “our slaves were happy until some white folks told them otherwise”…
These particular troublemakers showed up as opportunists after all the rioting started. Wouldn’t want to miss a chance to loot someone else’s town …
What you suggest PT would undoubtedly work but there is “Buckleys” chance of it ever happening, who could cash in? Nobody!
Will I need to explain “Buckleys”?
Um, yes please. Or I can look it up. The etymology, that is. The meaning is pretty obvious.
Another good Australianism which I authorize you to use if you so desire 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Buckley's_chance
Around here people would probably assume I meant William F. Buckley, author and commentator, and would have no idea what I was talking about. Of course, context helps.
Our Bill Buckley sounds more interesting.
I lived in Melbourne Victoria for a number of years and there was a very large quality department store named Buckley and Nunn and it was assumed down there that the adage ‘ two chances Buckleys and none’ was a play on the name of that fine old department store which was taken over many years ago and is now owned indirectly by Woolworths South Africa.
The beauties of a global economy and global warming are with us to stay unfortunately I really believe the good old days were now 🙁
There would be no one to arrest looters, murderers, rapists, robbers, aggravated assaulters, burglars, thieves, arsonists. There would be no one to investigate traffic accidents; to enforce traffic laws – the purpose of which is to reduce the frequency of traffic accidents.
Taking this a step further, who would come to your house at 3:30 in the morning when you hear a strange noise? Who will accept your invitation to join you and your husband/wife/child and settle each and every grievance you each have suffered at the hands of the others for most of your lives together? And WHO, I ask, will drive to your home in a blizzard to take a report of that bicycle you think was stolen last summer, now that you think of it, since you don’t have anything better to do because this goddam blizzard has you snowed in?
Be careful what you wish for, Ms. Pied. Try a bucket of ice water – it’s this week’s fad.
As I said, residents could call 9-1-1 if they wanted help, just as they’ve always done. What they don’t need is what they have right now. A show of overwhelming force has only made things worse. Why not try withdrawing the police to the city limits? In any case, it was a half-facetious suggestion.
@H.L.,
You make good points about the proper role of police.
Someone who was cynical (surely not moi?) might suggest that Ferguson would make a good test case for Republican philosophy on government and guns. As PT suggests, have the cops withdraw to the city limits and suggest to all businesses and citizens that they arm themselves with as much firepower as they think they need to defend themselves. DoD could have a discount sale for the occasion. Rand Paul would probably approve.
All that said, and I guess I’m lucky, the only time in my long life I’ve ever had any personal interaction with the cops, excepting being stopped for speeding a couple of times, was when my son’s bicycle was stolen. The cop who took the report was barely literate and I had to help him fill out the report. This was a long time ago – maybe it’s better now (but I doubt it).
This is America, Mr. Wheeler. You get what you pay for. If the people want Harvard Law grads to police the streets, all they have to do is say so. No problem.
Sorry about your comment getting hung up, H.L. The spam filter is acting a little weird this week.
I agree it was half something.
That’s what I thought, too. Put up road blocks like they do after hurricanes here – only residents allowed in and then after warnings that you are on your own. (No press in. Do not allow outsiders in – too many from other states just up there stealing, getting on TV, strutting around like they are doing something positive and constructive)
I really feel sorry for the residents who are not rioting and only want to have a decent life. The cops did pull back one night, and store owners/residents were distraught saying “We asked them to be less confrontational – not leave.” Shop owners trying to defend their stores by standing out front with rifles called 911 but response was hours and slow. One exhausted owner yesterday said he understood as the cops were pretty busy. But they felt abandoned
No easy solution, but letting it burn itself out may be the only direction right now.
Militarization of local police? 2 years ago encouraged by Homeland Security – lots of federal funds for military stuff the local police have no business having – many of us noted the buildup and tried to say something (Governors were not involved except they had to sign the Federal forms letting Homeland give money/equipment to various law enforcement agencies …like Montgomery County or any town here needs drones and tank-like vehicles. After that signature, Gov. had no involvement or control)
Another question: Why is the Department of Education and Ag Dept buying assalt weapons, military armored vehicles, stockpiling ammunition, bullet proof vest and more? Shouldn’t Dept of Ed. money be going to schools and kids?
Lots to question about all this military style weaponry build up by those who don’t need it.
Obviously it’s not doing any good in Ferguson.
I’d amend your last line to “Obviously it’s causing a lot of problems in Ferguson.” As for the Dept of Educ. and Ag. Dept buying such gear, I can’t imagine either needing it (much less spending money on it instead of school supplies, teachers, etc.). Even if it were being given away for free, why would they need it? All I can figure out is some of the folks in charge are gun nuts who see an opportunity to get more guns, which seems to have become their cure for every problem.
Homeland security is providing the guidance for Dept of Edu and Dept of Ag for purchasing of arms and equipment….stupid. Are they concerned with cows taking over? Oh, farmers not following regulations…and student outbursts? Stop wasting money! No wonder people are increasingly distrustful of giving the government more money and authority.
Didn’t Ferguson /FAA try to stop news helicopters the 2nd day and keep news crews in certain locations? So many were performing for the cameras. But then all the shouts of free speech. What a mess. The world is laughing.
It’s worse than a waste of money. It’s nuts to be handing out guns and other weaponry when one of our biggest problems is the proliferation of guns!
Not sure about attempted restrictions on news choppers but certainly they’ve been busy on the ground intimidating reporters, arresting them, teargasing them, dismantling their equipment, and restricting their access and movement in Ferguson. It could be argued either that it’s “crowd control,” or that it’s an effort to reduce coverage of a screwed up police force.
The world may be laughing at our 21st Century Keystone Cops, but it doesn’t change the fact that an unarmed young man was shot to death by a cop. Nothing funny about that.
Lots of uproar about the FAA attempt.
Probably better the media was there to keep military-style control limited… more sensible to send in the Ninja Turtles.
Certainly a tragedy – and it will be a legal circus for a long time. So many versions of “the facts”. The guy was unarmed (but with his group and may have assumed the cop knew about the cigars). The cop was alone, his face/eye socket is severely fractured. No actions by either side justified.
Case is not gonna be pretty no matter what.
Just what the country needed to unite us all
Now this country is as lawless, violently knee jerk reactive, and brutal as all the others
Russia and other countries being criticized for aggression are making comments.
As I’ve noted before, so much for “American exceptionalism.” There is nothing exceptional, admirable, or exemplary about the way things are being done in this country anymore.
If that term means “America’s concept/form of government is the best-est one in the world and every single country must construct one just like it or they are do-do heads”, yeah. Agreed. We have no right to be telling anyone how to run things based on present conditions and situations.
Anyone for pushing Space-X to hurry up on those space launches?
“Best-est in the world” is the way conservatives have been using it the last few years, to our very great detriment, I think. It didn’t used to mean that.
oh, I was being sarcastic – didn’t realize people actually said that….used to be bad usage indicated a limited thinking ability.
Sorry that guy was so mad. But hey, controversy and resulting debates make good blog reading?
Well, they don’t actually say “best-est” … or maybe they do …
Gosh darn – and it was said in my best-est Sarah Palin imitation…perhaps too well done
(my head’s already aching over the approach of presidential campaigns)
Who? Oh, her. I’d erased all memory of her and had to go look up the name …
The election can’t come soon enough. I was sick of hearing about it last January.
I trust you’re not including my countries, England and Australia, and the European countries, in that ‘ all the others’ group.
We don’t have the problems that you have with regard to guns. It’s the US’s problem brought about by yourselves and so long as you have idiots who think that the “British are coming” and still need to arm yourselves to ward off the invasion you will never change.
Come to think of it I don’t think you can now, it’s too late for you, your love of guns, your gun lobby and the complete lack of resolve means that you wont rid yor country of guns.
But please don’t try and involve/ include/associate the civilized countries of this world with your inane insatiable infatuation with guns.
I am deeply offended by your remark, by being included in the reference ‘all the others’.
When it comes to guns and the misuse of them you in America stand alone!
Oh, really sorry – didn’t mean to upset you. Not sure exactly what the annoyance is.
Only wringing hands over the current discord in the US. (There was a bit of a joke about the Nija turtles should have been called before the national guard )
I think my comment indicated other countries should not try to follow this path at all
(That the arrogant “exceptionalism” term promotes US form as a glorious beacon for all? Not sure as that term isn’t used much here. I’m not fond of it)
Although there are some who try to say the form of republic/democracy utilized in the US should be the model above all others, I firmly disagree.
No one size fits all model for government can/should be applied to countries. People must find their own way and what works for them
I have a great number of international friends and coworkers. One thing we agree on is a country’s demographics, geography, traditions, heritage, and even weather does play a major role in which form of government fits a place.
I do not believe in banning weapons. I do believe in laws and enforcing those laws strictly.
Mexico bans guns – and is in total violence and discord. Chicago has a gun ban – as does Aurora Colorado – it didn’t/doesn’t stop the killing. People have to stop themselves – there will always be something that can be used as a weapon.
What really concerns me is that too many see violence as a solution to problems. That too many unstable mentally ill people do not get the help they need and some go unrecognized until too late – even though the signs are obvious and family/people know they are dangerous. I am concerned anger and violent behavior is growing along with a disregard for the law and human life. No self control. Little taking responsibility for actions. Too many excuses.
Perhaps you read my response a bit too fast? Or I did not express my thoughts clearly enough.
But glad you feel open enough to comment.
PiedType has a great blog – always interesting stuff and people here
Lord and Phil, my apologies for Akismet holding your comments for moderation. That should not have happened with the settings I have in place with both of you having previously approved comments. I have queried WP about it.
Didn’t know that they had PT, didn’t even know it was possible to hold comments for moderation, but then I so rarely get comments on my postd that there’s probably a lot more that I don’t know 🙂
The comment settings are under Dashboard > Settings > Discussion if you want to explore your options.
The US has a rampant gun problem, unparalleled in any other civilized first world country. And the country is deeply, deeply divided over it. But please, LordBeari, don’t paint us all with your broad brush. Only about 35% of Americans own guns. Those who do not are begging for stricter laws, better gun control, better screening, anything that will stop the gun violence. Our political system is corrupt and it is very hard to get anything meaningful accomplished.
I think we need to drop the LordBeari bit PT it’s just a fun name from some years back. it just started off as beari so lets stick to that, doesn’t sound so stuffy.
I believe what you say about the gun problem and ownership in the US but I must admit that I was disturbed by the inference in philo…s “others” grouping. To me it showed an ignorance of the abhorrence of guns held by the rest of the so called civilized parts of the world.
Perhaps if all American citizens who are against guns and are for the control of them joined the NRA and then with their superior numbers voted the NRA off the face of this earth. That would be a start.
I apologize if I’ve upset you and your followers in the US it was unintentional.
Okay, I’ll try to remember Beari from now on.
I took phil’s comment to mean “all the other countries that are lawless, violently knee jerk reactive, and brutal,” which means we’ve allowed ourselves to fall into really bad company. I wish I could disagree with that assessment …
Love your NRA idea! If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em … and destroy them from within. You, sir, have a devious mind, and I commend you. 😉
No apology necessary. This is an open forum and I encourage discussion. Occasional ruffled feathers and misunderstandings are to be expected.
I can assure you that nobody in the U.S. Forest Service, which is part of the Department of Agriculture, fits the description of “gun nuts who see an opportunity to get more guns.” They are concerned about their people being assaulted by criminals in the National Forests and guys like that infamous Nevada rancher Bundy and his backers who threaten public servants trying to do their jobs.
I’d forgotten the Forest Service was under the Ag Dept. I think of Forest Service as rangers, law enforcement, etc. These days if you wear a uniform and have to enforce laws or regulations, you need to be armed.
Thanks for calling me out on that.
A nice thought PT. It’s nice to know there’s a ‘dreamer’ inside you too. I’ll just leave you with some lyrics from one of my all-time favorite songs – the lyrics I hear in my head whenever I get to thinking about how people ‘should’ behave…
“Dream on. Dream on. Dream on. Dream until until your dreams come true…” :/
Yep, I tend to dream a lot. Or imagine. Or wonder “what if.” In this case, I’m half serious. What would happen if all the cops pulled back to the edge of town and got out of everybody’s face? After all, nothing else has worked. What have they got to lose?
The same thing that keeps everyone from backing down from an entrenched position PT, the fear of losing face – the very thing that placed them in their precarious positions to begin with…
It’s far too late to save face in Ferguson.