Last week anonymous troops wearing no identification were grabbing people off the streets of Portland, Ore., forcing them into unmarked vans, and taking them to unspecified locations. No warrants, no Miranda warnings. Just grab and go.
It wasn’t a movie. It happened. In the United States of America. At the order of Herr Trump.
No one in Oregon requested federal assistance. In fact, the mayor of Portland and the governor of Oregon specifically asked the federal officers to stay off the streets.
“The federal government cannot put troops or military personnel or police on the streets without the invitation of the governor or the legislature of the state,” said Fox News analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano. “That’s not only federal law, that’s in the Constitution.”
And it doesn’t end with Portland. The New York Times reported today:
With camouflage-clad agents already sweeping through the streets of Portland, more units were poised to head to Chicago, and Mr. Trump suggested that he would follow suit in New York, Philadelphia, Detroit and other urban centers.
…
“I’m going to do something — that, I can tell you,” Mr. Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. “Because we’re not going to let New York and Chicago and Philadelphia and Detroit and Baltimore and all of these — Oakland is a mess. We’re not going to let this happen in our country. All run by liberal Democrats.”
Portland today. Your city tomorrow?
It’s an outrageous abuse of power.
November 3, Election Day, is 105 days away. Are you registered?
Terrifying and I am counting the days
It is terrifying. No doubt about it. I think that’s the word used by one of the people they grabbed.
Well, maybe if rioters stopped rampaging, setting things on fire, stealing, and generally wilding, perhaps …
Bet it wasn’t really a surprise.Where are the leaders of the peaceful protestors? – why don’t they work with city authorities and even the police to out and disown those determined to derail their legitimate peaceful protest?
They got exactly what they were pushing for: outrage at the President. So I guess they were successful
Destruction, rioting, has to stop or everyone loses. Future honest protests will be damned before they even start.
Not everyone is happy about the riots – or the way local elected officials are “managing” it
Reports I read said things were calming down in Portland … until the unidentified federal police showed up. Meanwhile, if Portland authorities felt they couldn’t effectively handle the situation, they’d have asked for help. But they didn’t. They specifically asked the uninvited police to stay out of it.
I agree the violence and vandalism, and the people instigating them, are hurting the cause(s) of peaceful demonstrators; that’s probably their intention. That and the fact that some of them are immature enough to get their kicks out of wrecking things. But Trump sending federal police, uninvited, into a city to control what he perceives to be a problem, is a totally different issue. He wants to look tough and in charge to boost his poll numbers, and he’s trampling the Constitution to do it.
Keep reading reports – and watch the videos online.
If they had left the Federal buildings alone, they would have been fine. But they started vandalizing federal property. That’s the line. Trump said he would protect federal property if the city didn’t – and the mayor and governor knew it.. He has that Constitutional authority and it has been used by presidents multiple times since the 50’s that I know of.- and as a tax payer, I approve protecting federal property – that’s my money in there, too.
Elected officials are expected to provide secure streets and protect citizens and property. They aren’t. It’s a war zone (And do not ask for taxpayer money to clean up since you did not take action to stop a mob and destruction)
Children or not – if they are breaking the laws, laws must apply to everyone. A country of laws – or chaos.
They have been living a Disney World life.Allowed to do whatever they wish even if it hurts business or people just trying to get through life. Time to grow up. Tell those moms and dads to get their kids out of the streets or they will be gathered up.
17 shot in Chicago in the last 2 hours tonight.
Enough is enough.
Somebody has to do something. These little rioters are going to make us all lose freedoms – they don’t even understand.
And what are the offerings for the next political election? A old elitist man of diminished capacity or a rich guy who refuses to listen to reason.
We may be done.
Police press conference going on now in Chicago. The shootings continue even now. What about all the children? The terrified parents and children in multiple cities. They can’t sleep in their own beds or walk the streets in safety.
They were asked to stay out of the streets, to stay on the federal property they were supposed to protect. They did not.
As for children protesting … if they’re old enough to be out after dark, after midnight, driving their own cars and getting into trouble, I don’t consider them children. Of course laws must be obeyed, but away from federal property, law enforcement there is up to Portland authorities.
The mass shooting in Chicago was at a funeral home; it wasn’t at a protest or demonstration. It sounds like just more typical Chicago gun violence. Meantime, the Chicago mayor has asked Trump not to send federal agents to Chicago, but he has said he’s sending in 175 agents. So apparently we’re going to have Trump running roughshod over yet another mayor’s specific request to stay out of it.
The actual protestors who were out originally were fine.
It’s the ones that arrived later in cars who were in destructive mode not protest mode. Those are the ones that need to be dealt with…they are brining baseball bat, smashing windows, and stuff to start fires.
The real protestors have to escape as these people show up – those are ruining the message…but they have a different message.
I actually liked the moms showing up and forming a barrier between protestors and authorities – safer for everyone and making a point: protest but don’t break laws or Destry property which belongs to others in the process
Portland and Seattle and Chicago must regain control of the violence and enforce the laws – for everyone’s sake. Consequences for actions must be dealt out and felt by those causing the problem.
Chicago after last night sees something has to be done – and their police are overwhelmed. Gang violence and drive bus are everyday life there. Ordinary people are suffering and not happy. Over the weekend there was a gang of children ages 10-17 car jacking people – 19 car jackings. One a teacher who saw a group of children approaching her and stopped only to have the younger on stick a gun in her face and demand the keys. She is shaken – as are the law abiding citizens who want to live there.
If local authorities don’t want to or can’t stop the needless violence – allowing the peaceful protests who are not damaging things – the locals have no choice to ask for help. the Chicago mayor asked 2 days ago for help. It is not army/military going in, but federal agents.
It’s really great some have never experienced a car stolen while they were feet from it, had someone try to kick in yo9ur door late at night, or driveby shootings in the neighborhood or had bullets fly through your car while you were just trying to drive home from work, but others, like me, have and understand.
Bullying, violence has to be stopped immediately with consequences or it only gets worse.
One size doesn’t fit all. One solution doesn’t fit all.
No chance of a third party – a same
The Chicago mayor’s July 20 letter to Trump lists a lot of requests for help in the form of new laws, programs, funds, etc. But in a lengthy paragraph that begins “What we do not need, and what will certainly make our community less safe is secret, federal agents deployed to Chicago,” she explains why such action would be counterproductive. The full text of her letter appears in a story from the CBS affiliate in Chicago.
I saw that previously. Is there a referendum of city’s citizens on that?
It would really help if Chicago would reverse the previous Presidents’ instructions to ignore federal mandates when a felon is arrested (again) in possession of a gun/weapon.
No one wants any thing close to “secret agents”. Maybe if individuals would stop invading peaceful protests armed with baseball bats, black umbrellas to cover security cameras and their own faces, and frozen water bottles to throw at authorities – let’ not exclude fire materials – maybe if those individuals were arrested and faced real consequences, then maybe the peaceful protest could resume, people in the areas could open their business and not live in fear?
Here’s a link to Homeland Security Director’s office addressing agents’ appearance in Portland. The same will be true in other places.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XTYITCtFlc
No matter the location. Laws must stand and those who break the laws must be arrested and face real consequences. Mob rule cannot be allowed – or we all suffer.
None of this is about Floyd – or helping. It’s destructive.
Maybe it would help if people were blunt about actions: it’s not “unacceptable” it’s murder, assault, stealing, rape, trespassing, inciting riot or violence. Bad people. Bad.
Be specific.
Yep, it’s always good to go to primary sources and multiple local news stations.
(Hey one of the local news people has an apt right next to the Chinese Embassy here and look down to see a fire last night – was the first to note they were burning documents in the middle of the atrium. Gee, wonder what? Not about oil, there’s a good deal of researchers in nano, technology, as well as medicine here…they tried to hack into one nano lab through our research network years ago. What a mess of the data. (backups saved us.) This is getting real world interesting…
I agree 100% that the lawbreakers, when they can be caught and identified, should face the maximum penalties under the law. But caught by local authorities, not interfering, uninvited federal agents. We’ve got two issues here: unlawful federal agents and local law enforcement. I’m vehemently against Trump sending in federal officers/troops/agents. I fully support local authorities enforcing the law in their own community (using appropriate legal methods, of course).
Agreed. If mayors and governors will stop telling their own law enforcement agency and agents to “stand down” and prevent them from stopping destruction and harming people and property. …. – and how about supporting the officers in blue as much as they support some of the mob? (Federal agents are/have been in communities for a long time doing their jobs in federal buildings – nothing new. The do protect all sorts of federal buildings, agencies, and offices)
Protest, yes. The participants can assist control by remembering why they are there – and not by stop trying to provoke conflict by screaming in faces, throwing things, and hitting with baseball bats. Some of the screamers are mob drivers not really part of the protestors. Self policing is always helpful.
(Have you seen the naked woman? She’s everywhere – walks like a model)
Yep – get those local authorities out there – and support them. Consequences for action must be part of the plan.
(Despite the constant showing up of wackos every year at Columbine, they are taking security forces out of there? I know a couple parents there that are really afraid of wh3at the results will be. Far too many nuts out there)
The police standing down actually helped here in Denver. More peaceful crowds, less confrontational attitude from both sides. A lot of the troublemakers that were arrested were not locals. And sometimes more recently, when trouble has erupted, it’s been because counter-demonstrators showed up.
Denver is a different mindset. Here’s pretty much the same – locals just want to get along.
What a year
Like it or not, people have a right of free speech. Also have the right to know why they’re being arrested and to be mirandized. I agree it’s time for everyone to go home, but if ppl still want to protest, they are protected by the Constitution to do so. But go home and let’s finish this on Nov. 3rd. But what trump did violates so many laws and civil rights. Arrest the rioter, looters, but do not illegally contain non-violent protesters. There are 2 things I thought I’d never see in my lifetime. A pandemic, and our president turn into a dictator with the support of his party.
I’m basically living for just a couple of things now — to be with my son and grandkids again, to see the end of the pandemic, and to see Trump humiliated at the polls. I would like to see the country returned to a polite normalcy, but doubt that will happen until Trump is gone.
I hear ya!
Love the protests. (Have done many myself. FYI my oldest cousin marched with MLK – and was murdered for it. So, careful)
Hate destruction of private property and violence.
Let’s all work together to end both.
Locally the protestors themselves assist the authorities in stopping those distracting and destroying the message.
Might work else where – but in any case the violent ones simply using an opportunity to steal and riot need to be collected and face consequences.
Yes, who would have thought
Having read the biography of Adolf Hitler I have been puzzled for weeks that nobody seems to have connected this occurrence with the employment of the German brown shirt militia in the 1930s. Just when you thought the Trump administration couldn’t get any lower, we now have American storm troopers. I doubt that Donald Trump has read Mein Kampf but he really doesn’t need to. He thinks just like Adolf.
It seems the man will stop at nothing to puff himself up, especially since the Republican Senate has demonstrated its unwillingness to stop him. So it’s up to us voters … if we can just hang on until Nov. 3.
Actually, I think that is the one book he has read. I read or heard that years ago. Whether it’s true or not, I do not know. But it wouldn’t surprise me.
It wouldn’t surprise me if he’d read it. He’s part German and probably thinks it would be cool to emulate Hitler.
Actually, I came across his reference. I should have bookmarked it. It was when trump was younger, like 40’s/50’s. He said he has read Hitler’s speeches.
I’m reminded of the message in “Unintended Consequences” by John Ross and in the message of “oath Keepers.”
Aside from a brief review, I’m not familiar with “Unintended Consequences.” As for oath keepers, I suspect a lot of Colorado sheriffs belong to that group in that they have announced they will not enforce our gun laws and more recently, mask mandates, because “they are unconstitutional.” I’ve nothing but contempt for law enforcement officials who think they can pick and choose which laws they’ll enforce.
Courts should resolve interpretive constitutional issues, but IMO using federal troops.against US citizens isn’t one of them. A court decision would be helpful.
FWIW
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes which limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States. The Act was passed as an amendment to an army appropriation bill following the end of Reconstruction and was updated in 1956 and 1981.
Hence the unconstitutionality of what Trump is doing. Thank you for providing that so I didn’t have to go look it up myself.
I think I saw a headline somewhere that Portland is suing. That will put the issue in the court system. Not that anything will be decided before the election.
Yes…that ‘unmarked secret police’ was the hallmark of Fascism.
Their leader is out of power now, but it concerns me that they are all still out there someplace, licking their wounds and making plans for the future.